Ep. 24 – Hair Care During Cancer Treatment with Eva Stasce | A Petite Series S4OM Collaborative Connections

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[00:00:02] S4OM/S4OE Thecla Luisi: I’m TC Luisi. I’m with the Society for Oncology Massage and Aesthetics, S4OM and S4OE.

[00:00:09] S4OM/S4OE Thecla Luisi: We’re happy you’re joining us for our petite podcast, where we bring you short conversations with clinicians, researchers, and practitioners working in oncology and supportive care. Today, I’m speaking with Eva Stasce Eva’s a Los Angeles-based hairstylist and beauty entrepreneur, as well as the host of the Beauty Ritual Podcast.

[00:00:28] S4OM/S4OE Thecla Luisi: Eva has worked with clients in oncology treatment, recovery, and survivorship. She is passionate about redefining beauty beyond aesthetics. Welcome, Eva. We appreciate you are here sharing your knowledge and craft with us today

[00:00:42] Eva Stasce: Thank you so much for having me. It’s an absolute pleasure to be here, and getting to speak with you is something that I’ve been excited about all week

[00:00:50] S4OM/S4OE Thecla Luisi: I adore you, as you, already know. Okay, so let’s get to it.

[00:00:54] Eva Origin Story

[00:00:54] S4OM/S4OE Thecla Luisi: Our first question, Eva, is could you tell us a little bit about the work you do with clients going through cancer treatment and what first led you to this kind of hair care and support?

[00:01:04] Eva Stasce: Well I would say that life is the thing that me. It wasn’t something that I necessarily sought out, but I was approached by clients who referred me to through treatment. Some of the best referrals that you get in a practice are from clients that you already have because they know that you’ll be a fit.

[00:01:22] Eva Stasce: So I say that in my experience, I had people basically open up and say like, “Hey, I have this friend that is going through cancer treatment,” and that’s how that all happened. And I really learned through those clients what it was like to with hair loss to go into a series of cold capping, and just the physical changes that are happening, and it’s a very vulnerable time.

[00:01:52] Eva Stasce: So I think the reason that I even got those referrals is I tend to gravitate more towards deeper [00:02:00] connected experiences, and I like to hold space for that. So automatically, that kind of already puts me into the category of ah, I might want someone who can just hold the space for what I’m going through, right? And I think even though I didn’t have any experience or training going into those first few clients, that was like the preemptive trait that I had that brought them into my work sphere. And I really was fascinated. I was really … I felt really honored to be able to hold space for what people were going through especially those first few clients that were actively going through treatment. in my other experiences of clients that were in remission, I was just fascinated by like the physical changes that would happen. People were going from maybe having colored hair to com- being completely gray and having completely straight hair and having curly hair all of a sudden.

[00:02:56] Eva Stasce: So it’s like you’re having to relearn this entirely new [00:03:00] physiology now that you’ve, healed and gone into remission. And I like to handle topics with depth, so like that would… that’s how I would answer that.

[00:03:10] S4OM/S4OE Thecla Luisi: You are extremely mindful, and that’s obvious when somebody sits in your chair or interacts with You know, Because you and I met professionally actually doing a, a volunteer event for breast I know this about you. And I love how this was brought about, for you.

[00:03:27] Client Led Consultations

[00:03:27] S4OM/S4OE Thecla Luisi: And when a client shares that they’ve been diagnosed with cancer or about to begin treatment, what do you like to learn about where they are in that journey?

[00:03:38] S4OM/S4OE Thecla Luisi: Are there any specific questions that you ask them or information that you like to know so you can best serve them?

[00:03:46] Eva Stasce: Here’s what I’ll say. I never put myself really in charge of divulging. I always find it best to receive what someone [00:04:00] wants to tell me, and if I’m noticing something, I will bring that forward, right? If I’m noticing there’s a skin condition or a lot of shedding and hair loss, will gently bring that forward, given after our consultation what they are, ready to share with me.

[00:04:18] Eva Stasce: But I always feel very led by the client. That’s really what I try to do is I try to be the best listener that I can be that I can ask the right questions, so that I can notice the right things and be looking for the right things. I like to sit in that listener role

[00:04:35] S4OM/S4OE Thecla Luisi: You said earlier it’s, it’s a vulnerable so, and everybody handles it differently. So I love that you just take your cues from them.

[00:04:42] Eva Stasce: We forget a lot about the psychology of what’s going on, right? I’ve never been through treatment. I’ve never had to be in those shoes, but through other challenges in life, we can totally understand grief the way that something can completely change your [00:05:00] life and, for whatever reason, make it topsy-turvy, and what made the difference for you in those moments, you can bring to a session when you’re working with someone who’s going cancer.

[00:05:12] Eva Stasce: I think, It’s easy to forget that there’s a lot of psychology happening there, especially if you’re, like, depending on what kind of provider you are, if you’re very technical or if you’re very fashion-forward you’re not really thinking about the emotional and psychological aspect as, as much.

[00:05:31] Eva Stasce: You have to shift gears for someone

[00:05:34] S4OM/S4OE Thecla Luisi: Not everybody can do that. I I mean, So that’s is one of your gifts.

[00:05:38] Eva Stasce: Thank you. I think you, I think we can train people to do it just by bringing awareness of it and by speaking of it, but you’re right. You’re right. Some people are going to have a strong like a strong suit of empathy or a strong suit of listening. But it’s definitely something we can bring a lot more awareness to

[00:05:53] S4OM/S4OE Thecla Luisi: Agreed.

[00:05:54] Supporting Hair Loss Choices

[00:05:54] S4OM/S4OE Thecla Luisi: Hair loss can be one of the most vulnerable, visible, and emotional parts of cancer [00:06:00] treatment.

[00:06:00] Eva Stasce: Absolutely

[00:06:01] S4OM/S4OE Thecla Luisi: is there anything you in particular do to support someone who is preparing for hair loss or beginning to lose their hair that you can share with our audience?

[00:06:09] Eva Stasce: Well, step one I think is either having the conversation or hearing where that person is at and what kind of decision they’ve made to go forward. Because a lot of times you’ll have that initial… And not everyone loses their hair, right? There are some people that don’t. There are s- also people who make a really clear decision. immediately going to cold cap through this. I c- you know, the, the very thought of it is not something I can tolerate. Other people immediately look for complete hair removal. I’ve totally helped people sh- you know, take their hair down to a zero. Is Usually the first place, right?

[00:06:50] Eva Stasce: Some people make a decision and they also… And that’s how they handle it. They’re just like, “I can’t think about this right now,” and we handle it later down [00:07:00] the road by creating different haircuts with it. I think in that time of really elevated tension you have to work with either a clear black and white decision of “This is how I want to approach this,” or, ” I’m not gonna deal with it right now.” And then down the line, you can gently bring that conversation to life. I I even had a client who I was no longer seeing. She ended up going through… She was a client of mine’s mother, she was going through treatment, and she decided she wasn’t really sure what to do. And I offered, I was like, “Hey, I, I would be happy to help you with your hair.” But it ended up being she wanted something even more intimate, and her daughter was the one who helped her with that, right? But it was also… I felt really grateful to help bring that conversation to light, ’cause it helped her forward. Like, She wasn’t really sure what to do with her hair, right?

[00:07:53] Eva Stasce: And just gently, even offering some options helps people take a little bit more [00:08:00] agency in something to do about it. Because a lot of times you’re, like, worried about survival. You’re not really worried about how you look. That could come later. It could come another time. It could feel too overwhelming to make a decision about. And that’s where it’s really interesting to come as a provider and really tune in to what what’s the most, like, loving thing I could do in this moment to just encourage a little bit of a relationship to your aesthetic.

[00:08:25] Self Care During Crisis

[00:08:26] Eva Stasce: I know it sounds really strange to care about something like your looks in a time where you’re really worried about your survival. But I’ve always found myself, even in times of hardship or grief, those little things of making yourself, a little control, a little agency, or just making yourself look and feel just a little elevated. whatever word really suits you. Sometimes it’s just clean and fresh.

[00:08:53] Eva Stasce: Really, you’ll find you’ll find that word for yourself. But it can make [00:09:00] all the difference in the present moment and take you a little bit out of that fight or flight, a little bit more into look what I do have a little agency over.

[00:09:10] S4OM/S4OE Thecla Luisi: Yes I agree that self-care, which I think hair comes under, a form of love for yourself, and it does help you feel better about yourself. Some people, as you said, and everybody’s going to be different about it, but some people really feel better when, they … their outward appearance is better.

[00:09:32] S4OM/S4OE Thecla Luisi: They’re gonna get more dressed up. you know, They’re going to take the time to do that. Everybody’s gonna handle it differently, but the hair is such a personal thing for men and women. And it really can make a huge difference on how they feel about themselves, and also having a stylist who’s aware and helping them through that journey as you’ve said you’ve done.

[00:09:51] Gentle Hair Care In Treatment

[00:09:51] S4OM/S4OE Thecla Luisi: So that brings me to my next question about when someone’s undergoing chemotherapy, radiation, or another type of cancer treatment, [00:10:00] medications, immunotherapy, what changes do you make in the way you care for their hairs and scalp? For example, water temperature when washing, and what do you tell them to do at home?

[00:10:10] S4OM/S4OE Thecla Luisi: The heat of your styling tools if they still have hair. Choosing products, brushing and cutting, like are there any specifics you employ?

[00:10:18] Eva Stasce: It’s so broad. You’d be surprised at how many people still have thick hair, how many people have really fine hair. I sit in the same kind of zone that I always work in, which is a little, for me, I’m surprised that I would answer this way, but, you don’t want absurd tension.

[00:10:38] Eva Stasce: You wanna add a lot of moisture. You don’t want the heat to be y- just like how you would really normally ideally care for the hair. You don’t want extremes of any kind. There’s always going to be those more complicated aspects if someone has a formula issue. That can become, more complicated technically in terms of if you’re [00:11:00] sensitive to color, keeping it completely off the scalp.

[00:11:02] Eva Stasce: If you have some allergy that’s arisen. I find that a lot of times, we have to go really basic, almost like baby shampoo with shampoos and conditioners. as much as it is related to a treatment journey, that also happens quite a lot with people I’ve found in this day and age, like unrelated.

[00:11:25] Eva Stasce: So

[00:11:25] Eva Stasce: If you have a a diverse clientele, you’ll find those same challenges will teach you things that you can bring to someone who’s going through treatment

[00:11:32] S4OM/S4OE Thecla Luisi: Great.

[00:11:33] Eva Stasce: just

[00:11:33] Eva Stasce: have to

[00:11:33] Eva Stasce: be aware, you have to care, you have to be interested. Those are really the things that I think come up.

[00:11:38] Eva Stasce: A lot of times we can be in a rush, we want things to work, we are using the best thing in the salon. We can get really caught up in the rhythm of everything just works at the status quo, and it just takes a little time to slow down and tune in and l- and listen and really care about creating the best client experience that you possibly can

[00:11:59] S4OM/S4OE Thecla Luisi: [00:12:00] I know you do.

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[00:12:01] Wigs Cuts And Cold Caps

[00:12:01] S4OM/S4OE Thecla Luisi: Do you help wigs or head coverings, scalp care? you spoke about, you know, if they opt to do the cool caps, which m- everyone in our a- audience might not know what that is, finding ways for them to feel more comfortable with changes in their appearance

[00:12:16] Eva Stasce: I don’t do, I don’t do wigs. I don’t.

[00:12:19] Eva Stasce: That is an incredible specialty. and I actually haven’t really worked with too many people that decided to go that route. I’ve worked more with people who have wanted to grow with a cut. So we’d start with a buzz, and then we would create pixie cuts and shorter cuts and help grow them out as time went on. And a lot of times with cold capping, we might want to explain that for the audience listening. It’s basically an ice treatment. I’ve actually never been there in person. I’ve just heard this from people that I’ve worked with. It’s basically cold packs that sit on your scalp. It’s quite uncomfortable and, it saves your follicle from [00:13:00] absorbing any of the treatment that’s going on in the body, and it allows you to retain your hair.

[00:13:04] S4OM/S4OE Thecla Luisi: as

[00:13:04] S4OM/S4OE Thecla Luisi: you’re going through an infusion.

[00:13:06] Eva Stasce: And in my experience of clients who have done that method, the hair remained completely healthy, intact. It grew beautifully. It was thick. It was, like, better than my hair. Seriously, it was crazy. Obviously everyone has a different experience. never know it’s going to be like for someone.

[00:13:24] Eva Stasce: So really just wanna take your time, assess, really watch, notes, mental notes as you’re working with someone in, in a shifting condition

[00:13:36] Recovery Hair Changes

[00:13:36] S4OM/S4OE Thecla Luisi: Shifting condition is exactly right because that’s what happens when somebody’s in treatment and recovery and survivorship, and it goes on for a lifetime. So as clients move into recovery and survivorship, their hair and scalp may continue to change, as you were saying before, like the texture, the color. What would you like them to know or recommend about caring for their hair as it grows back, and how does [00:14:00] your approach evolve during that stage?

[00:14:02] Eva Stasce: I feel like I’ve been really lucky to see people remain really stable. And I’ve been, like, really pleasantly surprised by people achieving this, like calm scalp, calm hair. And I think a lot of times you can be looking too much. I have noticed that. Sometimes you’ve been through a, a stage of not exactly worry, but attention to detail and making sure, that someone is stable, but then you can reach a stable point.

[00:14:28] Eva Stasce: And honestly, that should be enjoyed. I also really believe in having a great dermatologist or trichologist that if you do notice other things coming up, because that’s really the expertise that you need if you’re noticing, like, different patterns of hair loss. It could be unrelated to treatment. It could be, something related to aging or hormones or something else that, you could potentially be noticing

[00:14:52] S4OM/S4OE Thecla Luisi: I mean, it’s all connected because of course the treatments affect your endocrine system, your hormones, and all of that, right? So you need your oncology [00:15:00] team, and I do a good dermatologist who does work with people who d- you know, have changes in their hormonal, makeup as well as hair and skin.

[00:15:11] S4OM/S4OE Thecla Luisi: It’s important because all those are affected.

[00:15:13] Eva Stasce: whole s- that’s the funny thing about life. You realize there, you’re constantly changing and evolving, and you may notice, you may notice changings for a variety of factors. So I think being open-minded and checking in are two of the best stances you could possibly take

[00:15:32] Finding The Right Stylist

[00:15:32] S4OM/S4OE Thecla Luisi: As far as communicating with that hairstylist, do you wish more hairstylists understood about working with someone who has cancer? And part two is, what is something you wish every person with cancer knew they could ask their hairstylist for?

[00:15:48] Eva Stasce: so that’s a very challenging question. Luckily, we live in a world where there are plenty of people, so you can find your right match. I generally think that this is something that should [00:16:00] be brought up in cosmetology school, .. i know that there’s not enough time.

[00:16:03] Eva Stasce: There’s 1,000 hours in a program where you’re trying to learn everything about hair, and it’s just not possible. But I do think, given the concerns of most people today, which is health and aging, that those two things need to be imprinted on a stylist from the very beginning, of the importance of having a great listening and understanding the shifts that come with time. So I, I really would wish that upon the education system so that you are at least exposed to it in the beginning, and it would, it would be something that you would take through your whole career or at least have in the back of your mind. In terms of what someone could ask their stylist, I really think-

[00:16:44] S4OM/S4OE Thecla Luisi: what would you want somebody to ask you?

[00:16:47] Eva Stasce: I don’t necessarily know how to answer that, if I’m quite honest

[00:16:50] S4OM/S4OE Thecla Luisi: Okay. That’s fair.

[00:16:52] Eva Stasce: Because it’s so individual. It’s, as I sit with that, I’m like, I don’t know. I would really want for someone to feel comfortable. If… it would [00:17:00] be less of like, answering this question, but more so about, tuning in and feeling like, “Do I feel really comfortable with this person?

[00:17:07] Eva Stasce: Do I feel comfortable kind of taking them along this ride with me? Does it feel like a safe space? it feel like this person is listening but also confident in what they do, and do I align with what they do?” It’s looking at that because every hairstylist is gonna have their talent and their stance.

[00:17:27] Eva Stasce: They’re just gonna be like, “This is what I do. This is what I’m great at,” ’cause we are craftsmen. And if you’re looking at it as someone who has a craft and also is bringing their personality and their empathy and their listening, you’ll know. You’ll know just given the communication style with each other, is this a relationship that’s going to work for me?

[00:17:47] Eva Stasce: And there will be signs when it’s not. So I don’t know if there’s necessarily question that you could ask that would guarantee that, but it’s more of a working, real-time relationship that happens between the two of [00:18:00] you from the very start. So listen to the green flags, listen to the red flags, and make your choices.

[00:18:05] Oncology Training For Hairdressers

[00:18:05] S4OM/S4OE Thecla Luisi: What do you think about, because you brought up the cosmetology training, and it’s not offered right now, right? You know and I know that. About education, because what a lot of us do is we get certified afterwards, after we’ve gotten our licenses, mainly massage therapists and aestheticians in oncology, training so that we have, like, a foundational understanding before we start working with that oncology client.

[00:18:31] S4OM/S4OE Thecla Luisi: But I don’t believe there’s anything like that for hairdressers. But I’m curious of what you think that’s the importance of that

[00:18:39] S4OM/S4OE Thecla Luisi: I think it merits a space.

[00:18:41] Eva Stasce: Yeah, no, it really does. If you re- it’s… I love that you’re posing this question because it’s something that a very large majority of people go through, and obviously we don’t l- you know, in grander society, we don’t bring it up a lot because it’s an uncomfortable and vulnerable conversation, and that’s not something that our [00:19:00] society’s great at, let’s be honest. And for some reason it seems like hair has missed, missed the wave of education that’s come into other aspects of aesthetics. And that could be because of hair is not necessarily an organ, right?

[00:19:15] S4OM/S4OE Thecla Luisi: I mean, The scalp is the tissue, right?

[00:19:17] Eva Stasce: is, but hair itself is not, right? And a lot of these education systems get really granular and really technical about, like, why they’re teaching what they’re teaching. If you’ve sat in on any of these state board open h- open Zooms or whatever, it’s like they, they’re very granular and very corporate in many ways. That being said, you’re right. The scalp is affected by it. And it should be. There should be a, at least a small portion that, that goes over at least, like, why basic formulation shampoo and conditioners are important, and, like, how to handle color on someone who is in a compromised position.

[00:19:56] Eva Stasce: , That should absolutely be covered. And also, you know, I’ve spoken a [00:20:00] lot about the psychological and emotional aspect, which I think is extremely important. that could be absolutely its own segment of education easily

[00:20:08] S4OM/S4OE Thecla Luisi: I wish that for our future, cosmetologists. Um,

[00:20:12] Outro And Where To Find Eva

[00:20:12] S4OM/S4OE Thecla Luisi: Eva, thank you so much for joining us today and for sharing your experience. We really appreciate the compassion and care you bring to your clients, especially those navigating cancer treatment and recovery. It’s clear that what you do is about so much more than hair. It’s about helping people feel like themselves again.

[00:20:31] S4OM/S4OE Thecla Luisi: Thank you for the work you do and for being part of this conversation. You can find Eva’s podcast, The Beauty Ritual Podcast, on YouTube and Spotify, as well as follow her on Instagram at beauty_ritual. And if you’re in Los Angeles or the Southern California area, be sure to book an appointment with her at the Strand Hair Studio.

[00:20:51] S4OM/S4OE Thecla Luisi: S-T-R-N-D is how you spell Strand, and it’s in West Hollywood.

[00:20:56] S4OM/S4OE Thecla Luisi: If you’d like to learn more about oncology safe care, you can find [00:21:00] us at www.s4om.org or check out the full library of interviews on our YouTube channel at s4om.org. We hope today’s conversation was insightful and valuable. If you liked it, please share it with anyone you think would benefit from listening to it.

[00:21:16] S4OM/S4OE Thecla Luisi: Thank you for being here. We’ll see you soon

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